Here's The Thing About Modern "Witches"...

[00:00:00] Spookies, thank you very much for coming back to our podcast here. Super glad you're here. I think we have one of the most interesting, I guess, to me at least, the research behind the modern witch and Mexican brujas. I think there's this huge distinction, but also very close roots, I guess, or like very... they have a lot of similarities. So I really think you're gonna like this one.

[00:00:29] Let's go check out this episode. So we've all heard about them, right? Women, primarily women actually, who are out there buying crystals, being fully aware of the cycles of the moon, casting spells, dreaming of being a witch in the middle of the woods, living in a cottage, scrolling through Etsy whenever they get the chance. And then you have me over here telling you that I'm afraid of witches. That's not the kind I'm referring to. So I feel like I need to explain this to you. You ready?

[00:00:59] My name is Edwin, and this is Paranormal Club. Growing up in the United States, I saw witches in a very different way than people see them in Mexico. For example, in kindergarten, there was this song that we learned. It was called Tilly the Witch. T-I-L-L-Y. Tilly the Witch.

[00:01:25] And it went something like, I am a witch and my name is Tilly. Blah, blah, blah, something and I'll scare you silly. Nursery rhyme. Could that be why I'm like afraid? No, probably not.

[00:01:43] But anyway, that kind of thing is painting this picture of a green skinned, big nose, tall hat with like pointy hat of a woman who lives in the forest and is going to catch you and eat you. Then there was also my aunt who lived with us for a little bit and she was into Practical Magic, a movie is called Practical Magic. I don't remember the movie. I kind of remember the actresses in it. I remember I liked it, but I don't remember the movie itself like the story.

[00:02:11] Then there was Sabrina the Teenage Witch, right? All these things like witches are a different thing in the U.S. and that's how I grew up knowing them. And it all came crashing down one day with a very, very important milestone in my life. The primer impacto episode about La Bruja de Monterrey. Los habitantes de una ciudad están atemorizados ante lo que parece ser el ataque de unos extraños seres que muchos aseguran son parecidos a brujas. Desde México, Alejandro Mendoza tiene los impactantes testimonios.

[00:02:42] Este objeto que flota sobre un cerro fue captado por un grupo de videoaficionados. La difusión de estas imágenes causaron gran conmoción. The story of La Bruja de Monterrey is fascinating, a huge turning point in my life. You're going to hear me talk about it often, right? Now, this was an urban legend and it turned out to be real because this police officer, municipal police officer, encountered the witch in 2004 and spoke on the news, like actually spoke out. He said,

[00:03:39] when he noticed what looked like this dark object, almost like a heavy black bag Falling from the branches, so he's looking at it going okay, just wait for it to fall. But instead of hitting the pavement, it started floating around 2 feet above the ground and it started levitating in midair. And when the figure turned toward the patrol car, like the high beams of the car, Officer Samaniego got a clear look at what this thing was. And it wasn't a bag.

[00:04:08] It appeared to be a female figure with dark or brown skin, wearing a long black gown, a dark cloak, and a hood that curved to a point at the back. Think about that, right? And you're a police officer, right? It is late, though. It could be like this. This is where like skeptics can have like, well, maybe you were falling asleep, dude. Think about this. An officer, if he was falling asleep and had to tell this to people and make a report about it,

[00:04:35] I would just not say anything because they're going to know that you were falling asleep at your job, right? He said, its face had large pitch black eyes with no visible pupils or eyelids that seemed to avoid the bright headlights. Its arms were unusually long, ending in sharp pointed claws instead of fingers. Then suddenly, the entity lunged at the patrol car. It literally slammed directly to the front windshield as if they were trying to grab the officer through the glass.

[00:05:03] Imagine that commotion, right? Scratching in there trying to get in. And then he freaked out. So, Officer Samaniego threw the patrol car into reverse, called for backup over the police radio, crashed into a wall at the end of the street. He lost consciousness from the shock. Backup officers and paramedics arrived at the scene. They found Samaniego unconscious and trembling violently. He was taken to a clinic. Medical personnel there conducted a physical, taxological, psychological evaluations and everything.

[00:05:31] And according to the reports, the test confirmed that Samaniego was completely sober, drug-free, mentally sound, although he was suffering from acute emotional shock. In later interviews, Samaniego shared that he continued to suffer recurring nightmares about those pitch black eyes, frequently waking up crying and drenched in sweat. Now, news of the encounter made national news, right? It just, everybody was into this thing. Like, hey, who is this guy? What happened?

[00:05:58] Why would he say that and come forward with that? Like, wouldn't the, for example, the police department be like, ah, dude, like, why'd you do that? Like, why would you be telling people about stuff like that? Like, you're going to make us look bad. You're going to be like, oh, no, we believe in witches. Then several other sightings surfaced. Almost, you know, shortly afterwards. Officer Jorge Contreras from Santa Catarina, along with other two police officers from the Monterrey area, reported seeing the exact same figure.

[00:06:28] It was flying, like, like this humanoid thing, flying three days before Samaniego's encounter. So, they said that they hesitated to report what they saw until Officer Samaniego came forward with his own experience. Sometimes it takes that. You need to hear the stories before you're like, oh, that's happened to me. Maybe I should tell somebody so maybe they could also come forward and talk about these things and how they're real. Because it is embarrassing to talk about this.

[00:06:55] True Scary Story, my podcast, like, we have people coming, like, calling us. We record these calls. We talk about them. And then somebody else calls and they're like, hey, you know what? I can't, I'm talking about this because I also heard something similar. So, it might help somebody out. Or it makes me feel like I'm not crazy. Right? Because how do we explain these things, right? Anyway, the neighbors in the area also started reporting all these strange occurrences that night,

[00:07:18] including dogs barking frantically, sudden drops in temperature, dark shadow hovering over the rooftop tiles. This local resident, actually, her name was Norma Alicia Herrera, and her brother, also claimed to have spotted a flying humanoid during the daytime, actually, shortly before the incident. So, they would be, they're talking about this, like, he said it, made national headlines. All these people are like, oh, yeah, well, we had also seen that, but we never, like, told, we told people,

[00:07:47] but, like, nobody heard us until now, like, now that you guys are listening. So, the story kept getting attention. Right? Prominent Mexican ufologist Jaime Maussan. This guy's back. By the way, he's like the, you know that guy that says, I'm not saying it's aliens, but it's aliens? From that meme? He's like the Mexican version of Jaime Maussan. He's this, like, really famous ufologist. You always see him all over the news talking about how aliens are real.

[00:08:12] He suggested that the creature resembled the American Flatwoods monster, which is a very interesting story. You know what? I'm going to link to it if you want to listen to, like, a documentary version of it, because I made an episode on that. Anyway, however, the researchers later disputed the comparison, pointing that Samaniego had described human-sized black eyes and long sleeves, details that doesn't match the Flatwoods entity.

[00:08:36] Now, the fascination with this witch went, like, you know, like, it was charting, right? As in, like, it was breaking records. It was like, whoa, that is creepy. And then it just went, whoa, even creepier, because this is the report that I got to see. Now, at the time, I was probably seven, seven years old, something like that. It was May 17, 2006. No, I was older. What am I talking about? It's 17. Oh, 17.

[00:09:05] Members of the OVNI Club Nuevo León, led by researchers Diana Perla Chapa, captured the footage from the top of Cerro de las Mitras in Monterrey. The video is shocking. And I wish, I think we have a clip of it somewhere. We have it. We might show a little clip with it so we don't get copyright strike. But the video shows this dark hooded thing, like a thing just hovering over the mountains. People are like, una bruja, una bruja. And you can just clearly see this thing gliding across the skyline. Now, it's not flapping its wings. It's not like a kite or anything.

[00:09:34] It's just like kind of doing this, like, it's just hovering. It looks like it's kind of like on a, I don't know, like on a broom or something. And it matches the description that Officer Samaniego said, had mentioned two years earlier. So what is the witch? And over the years, explanations for la bruja de Monterrey have been divided between folklore, skepticism. Like people talk about it like, yeah, right, you haven't seen a witch. But then you have all these other signs. There's like, well, she was caught on camera. They have this official report of it.

[00:10:04] And you have multiple reports, actually, of sightings of this entity. So what is happening? Now, in northern Mexican traditions, where my family's from, starting to connect the dots here, these beings are described as women who fly silently through the night sky. And others that believe UFO and cryptozoology and all that stuff, they say that the creature might have been an interdimensional humanoid or some kind of unknown biological entity, which is possible, right? We haven't explored everything.

[00:10:34] We haven't been into the earth. Like explored every single cavity in the earth or like the deep ocean and stuff like that. So it's, I mean, it's possible. Probable, maybe not, but possible. Skeptics investigators have proposed some other ordinary stuff. Some saying that Officer Samaniego may have encountered a large bird or an owl. People, others maybe say that is like a visual distortion. Maybe, you know, from that footage of the witch, maybe it's just an artifact, something flying there,

[00:11:03] maybe a bird, something like floating around, like a hotter balloon or something. But anyway, the physical trauma that was described by Officer Samaniego was pretty legit. Like also some of the other people, like the other accounts, like they kind of say, hey, you know what? This thing was real. You got to watch out. But anyway, it kept that story going, right? The Bruja de Monterrey. It was the most famous ones, like in modern paranormal mystery.

[00:11:30] And I find it so creepy thinking that that thing could have been real. That I feel is what started changing all these things for me. Suddenly, the witches that I was growing up with, right? Like Sabrina. You're like, oh, cool. I wish I could do that. I wish I could do magic like that. Or even just regular witches, like from the Wizard of Oz. Is it the Wizard of Oz? I don't know if that's it. Is that a witch?

[00:12:02] Anyway, all these other ideas of how witches were, all these Halloween costumes started changing. Because then you're like, wait a minute. In Mexico, they say brujas, witches are completely different. And it just started, I don't know. It was very confusing. Believe it or not, I was really into this kind of thing. I really liked paranormal books and scary stories. Goosebumps, true scary stories. I mean, scary stories to tell in the dark.

[00:12:29] Stephen King books, when I was allowed to read them, they were genuinely creepy. Are you afraid of the dark? All these other shows I was afraid of. I was afraid of. I used to watch. Genuinely interested me. And the topic of witches seemed like this. Like, here's an idea. Boom. That's not it. It's this other thing. So, I started hearing about other things, right? Stories, true accounts of people who talked about how they saw a witch that turned into a ball of fire.

[00:12:58] Started asking around and I found that my family actually has a story of a witch that was observed in the small town where my mom grew up and my uncles and everybody. That they witnessed her turning into a ball of fire, flying down the street. And then the dumbo head crashed into a tree and literally and it caught on fire and fell to the ground. And the next day she looked visibly beat up like her face. So, that's how they say, oh yeah, she really did.

[00:13:27] But really she was known to like do witchcraft on people. Like you would take pictures to her and she would like burn and do all these things in her backyard and people would see her. And as kids, sometimes they would like peek over the fence and kind of see what she was doing. And she was always by herself. She looked, everybody knew that she was a witch. So, when I found out about those stories and I kept hearing all these radio stories on a program called La Mano Peluda that talked about witches. It made it real.

[00:13:57] But I had mentioned the thing about gringa witches, right? So, what the heck is a gringa witch? By the way, gringa means like a white witch. But not really a white. Oh, we're going to get so confused here. By gringa I mean like a United States style, European style kind of witch. Not quite the goodness. Okay. How do I explain this, dude? Okay. Okay. Hold on. Let me try this again.

[00:14:33] The channel. Thinking of it just makes me laugh because it's like, I get it. I know exactly what you're talking about when you say gringa witch. But it's very hard to describe. So, I started looking it up, right? Here's the thing about gringa witches. By the way, what I mean by gringa witch is literally this very specific kind of modern United States European witch. The kind you might find on TikTok, on Reels, the aesthetic of like dressing up like maybe you're from another era. Maybe avoiding metal. Maybe going to woods.

[00:15:03] Maybe burning candles in the background. Practicing spells. You can kind of see the vibe. Like on Etsy, if you look up witches on Etsy, you're going to find a lot of the aesthetic there. It's a vibe. You would have to get it. If you look it up, you're going to understand what I mean. But anyway, they have a very like serious relationship with the moon. And apparently the moon has a lot to do with this. So, I wrote out a bunch of like little details that I have here.

[00:15:30] And I turned it into something that it's easily digestible for us to understand. Because I was very confused about this, right? So, when I first started linking into it, I thought that we were talking about like curanderismo, which is healing. Or santeria or something like that. But it's not. When I hear the word bruja, I think of the stories we grew up hearing in Mexico, right? Women who could turn into animals, fly over houses at night. You put the curses on people. You might turn into some other object or something like that.

[00:15:59] Also closely related with owls and lechuzas. I love to come to know them. But if you have that mix of like in the U.S. growing up with the idea of the green skin, big nose, tall, pointy hat kind of witch. That mix, I mean, that first idea is like out the window. Now witches are this now, right? But then you come up with this other one, the gringa witch. In the United States, there's this witchcraft where the women being a witch isn't about scaring people anymore. It's more of like a spiritual practice.

[00:16:29] So, when people, you might see them in the comment section. They're like, hey, well, I'm a witch. And this is what. And they help me explain stuff. Like they help me understand stuff. I find that super useful, by the way. So, if you're watching this and you consider yourself a witch. Thanks. So, seriously, there's been things that I've been sent to like we have like a peel box kind of thing. And I've been sent crystals and things. And I'm like, I don't know how to use these. So, when I ask, I do get responses. And people say, yeah, this is how it's done. And it's very helpful, right?

[00:16:57] It's helpful in the way that, yeah, I didn't know what this was. And I don't understand when I read online. But somebody explaining it to me and letting me ask questions is like, whoa, this makes a lot of sense. But anyway, a lot of this modern American witch idea came from a thing called Wicca, right? So, it's kind of like a practice, like a spiritual practice. It's a religion that developed in Britain, actually, during the 20th century and became popular in the United States around the 1960s, very recently.

[00:17:25] And one of the people that helped introduce it to us here was Raymond Buckland and later authors, you know, Scott Cunningham, Starhawk. They made these practices a little more accessible because they explained them in like actual books and stuff. Now, the biggest things about Wicca now are just nature. Now, these witches are very connected to nature. They celebrate the seasons.

[00:17:49] They pay attention to, I don't know, like things like the phases of the moon, the seasons of, you know, what we know as like farming kind of things, like the harvest, the spring. They have names for these kinds of things. But they have their own calendar, which I found fascinating, called the Wheel of the Year. It includes eight festivals known as Sabbaths. Sabbaths. Sabbaths? Sabbaths. Sabbaths. S-A-B-B-A-T-S. Sabbaths.

[00:18:20] But let me actually find out what that is. Hold on. Now, these mark things like solstices, equinoxes, and the changing seasons. So, while most of us might see the beginning of fall as like a thing for us to like go get our pumpkin spice lattes, you know, get ready, like bring out your sweaters and warm blankets and stuff like that. Witches are actually preparing for spiritual celebration. And honestly, I kind of get it. Like they observe things like espats, which are associated with the full moon.

[00:18:50] This is where things start looking a little more like what you would call like witchcraft because they also have things like altars, candles, crystals, ceremonial knives, wands, pentacles. They even have cauldrons, like actual legit cauldrons, like a big pot to do things. Like, I don't know why, like this is what made me realize that, you know, they're pretty serious about this.

[00:19:18] You can actually buy cauldrons on Etsy, like artisanal made cauldrons. I mean, that's cool, I guess. Right. But here's the thing, though. Before you actually start imagining them like in a circle, like stirring this huge cauldron or maybe throwing a baby in there or something. Stop, because they're actually just symbolic. They're using these things to make, you know, focus intention, represent elements of nature, maybe make a sacred space in their homes or someplace out there.

[00:19:47] And they cast like these things that they call a magic circle before performing a ritual. I find this really interesting. I don't know how you let me know how you're feeling now hearing about all this stuff, because it's very different. Right. The brujas, which is what I'm afraid of. This is something like I might actually go to them and be like, hey, I need some help. What would I need help with? Like, I don't know. They make these things and they're trying to accomplish certain things. Right.

[00:20:14] But it's not quite like the Spanish signs in Mexico that you see where it says or even in L.A., Huntington Park and stuff where you see things like amares. It's like, you know, basically amares like the tie literally means a tie. Like basically get somebody to fall in love with you and not leave you. And they have a phone number so you can go and call them and say, hey, I want this person to not leave me. And they'll do it. And they give you these things. They'll sell them to you.

[00:20:42] You do them and supposedly they stay with you. Let me know if that's happened in your family, because I've heard of people that do this kind of thing and they say that it works. And that's kind of scary. I don't know. Imagine you're falling in love with somebody, but like really is because they did a thing on you. Anyway, some of these gringa witches also like they we call them gringa witches, but like in a friendly way. OK, by the way, it's not like we're not trying to be derogatory here. We're trying to be mean.

[00:21:12] This is like because I can't call them white witches. I can't call them. What else can I call them? Modern witches. Tick tock witches. Etsy witches. I think that's more offensive. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, this is a really friendly way, by the way. It's not like a derogatory thing. I actually looked it up to see if we could use it and not get like penalized for it because they've used it in certain things.

[00:21:41] I think NPR also has a classification for this to see if we were allowed to say this without offending anybody. But some people might. Some people might get offended. Plus, it's the Internet. So we have all these people talking about Jesus in the comments. And I'm like, hey, we're not against Jesus. Like, what are you talking about? Putting in Bible verses and stuff? That's a whole other thing. But anyway, speaking of the Bible, right? They have this book called The Book of Shadows. Sounds like something you something I would have in here somewhere.

[00:22:06] But it's basically a journal where they write down spells, rituals, observations, things that they've learned. They also come into they get into groups called covens, but they're not like the typical scary story coven of a witch. You know, a lot of them are just on their own practicing everything and they mind their own business. They're not like in your face telling you, hey, you should read the Bible. They might help some of us. But like, you know, they're not there like constantly like do this, do this and like that.

[00:22:35] But make them pretty good. It makes it pretty cool, you know, on their end. Like they're really cool. Anyway, right now, I think there's someone in the United States in their apartment lighting a candle, writing the Book of Shadows, asking the universe for a better job, for example. Or to maybe bring a good partner into their lives and stuff like that. And that's pretty cool. I mean, hey, as long as you're not bothering anybody, do your thing. But also Wicca is not the only type of witchcraft. Like I made it seem like it might have been, but it's not.

[00:23:04] There's like traditional folk witchcraft. That's a little closer to like the older stories of things like that did you hear about making potions out of strange things out of nature. Strange by that, I mean like toads or certain ribbon colors or certain plants, certain herbs, certain stones or crystals. And these come from religious traditions stuff that are passed down through families and communities, which is something that I can relate to.

[00:23:31] You know, because when I hear stories from people talking about witchcraft in their families, they usually learned it from their grandma or grandpa or someone down the line who happened to practice these kinds of things and taught them the ways. So it's very similar. Some practitioners also make small figures called poppets. They represent a person during a ritual. They look a little what we associate, like what we think are voodoo dolls. Maybe they are voodoo dolls.

[00:23:59] Usually imagine witchcraft and Christianity is like opposing things. But in these cases, like they might be a little bit mixed as well because they have prayers and folk healing kind of practices, protective magic. And some of them don't even consider themselves witches. They just practice these, but they're not like when you ask them, they're like, no, I'm a Catholic or I'm a Christian. Yet they have these other practices because they're passed down and they see that they work. Maybe they help them psychologically or just emotionally.

[00:24:27] Or maybe they actually genuinely do have some magical aspect to them. Again, here I go with my same thing. We would be super, super dumb to think that we know everything. We don't know everything. This is the thing about paranormal. Don't come here telling me that we know everything because we don't. Oh, really? Dude. Okay. Back to this. They also have this like figure known as the witch's devil, but it isn't like understood as like Satan.

[00:24:57] It's a different thing because it gets a little dark. We're just going to get to it and into the dark part because there's a lot of things about hidden knowledge and encounters with supernatural entities as well. For example, this one, it's not really like it needs to be kind of split apart from the whole gringa witch aesthetic. And that's brujería, curanderismo, healing, like healers and stuff with actual witchcraft, like dark magic.

[00:25:27] And I think in particularly in like Mexican, you know, Latino families and the communities where these traditions have their own histories. This is what makes it very, very similar to what I know to be the gringa witch practices, things that are passed down, things that we see out in nature, a lot of belief and faith in certain things that we might consider magical. Right.

[00:25:58] They're very common here. Things about like the egg cleanse. Like you grab an egg and you do a cleanse with it. Limpias using herbs where like if you go to maybe a place out in, for example, in Mexico City, you go out near the Zocalo area and you're going to see people doing these kinds of cleansing rituals with smoke. You might go to a mercado and you see people literally getting whacked like with a bunch of leaves and stuff. And really, that's a type of limpia.

[00:26:27] Like they're absorbing all these like energies and clearing you of them. So these things are kind of in the same realm as that. Now, whether an egg cleanse can work, whether the evil eye, the mal ojo exists, like when you look at somebody and you kind of make them, you can affect their emotional state or actual physical state just by looking at them a certain way. If that stuff is real, you know, you can, we can debate that.

[00:26:55] But I know that curanderismo and brujería and, you know, witchcraft are, they have that similar thing to gringa witches, which are, you know, they have botanicas. And you probably have one if you live in like a, if you have Latin American communities around you. Botanicas are places where they sell things like that. Candles, herbs, certain things that can help you with cleansing yourself of negative energies.

[00:27:19] I remember seeing soap somewhere in some bathroom that I used at some house, I forgot where. And I asked about it and it had a picture of a rooster. And I'm like, I've heard something about rooster poop. I don't know if that's a thing. They get that strange that I don't even know if this actually happens.

[00:27:38] But like I asked and they said, yeah, it's, it's like a cleansing thing, you know, to try to get rid of a certain mal, like a certain, some, I don't know, witchcraft thing that was cast upon them. But there is a difference here because curanderismo, like curanderos, healers and witchcraft, even though they share the same kind of like things, they're very different. And if you call one like a witch and they're not, they're going to get offended because it's not, it's not the same. Right.

[00:28:07] Healers can heal. Now, people who perform witchcraft are willing to do a lot of things for money, a lot of things for fame, a lot of things for, they can actually hurt somebody really badly. That's why I'm afraid of witches, by the way. Now, in Wicca, there's this principle called the Wiccan reed. Basically says, and it harmed none, do what you will. In other words, you can practice your beliefs, but you should avoid causing harm.

[00:28:34] You see where you kind of feel safe with this kind of witch? Because the kind of witch that you hear about in Mexico or in Latin America is somebody who's willing to do harm on people to get what they want. And some people genuinely want to see you suffer. Actually, there's a story called in the shadows of brujeria on True Scary Story, the podcast, where we hear about envy, direct envy, and somebody who just wants to see people suffer. And they cast all these things that actually end up really hurting a family.

[00:29:04] It's a very serious story, but I found it super interesting and connected to these kinds of things. Right. I feel like we should all practice this no matter what. Like, practice what you want, but don't hurt anybody. It's funny because if you grew up hearing Mexican witch stories, these witches aren't, you know, concerned if they're hurting your feelings or anything. They'll just tell you things. They'll do things. And it's really, it's a huge difference between the two. Right. One of them I'm afraid of. The other one's kind of like comforting. Like, you kind of want to talk to them.

[00:29:34] Like, hmm, let me tell you about my problems. Anyway, being connected to nature, developing spiritual understanding. Like, all these things are kind of the goals of these kinds of witches. And it keeps getting more interesting because they even go into, like, environmental activism sometimes. Because they believe that respecting the earth is something important, which it is. And it should. I don't know why we would be against that. Right. Others follow the idea that says mundane before magical. Which means try to solve the problems, like, the real way.

[00:30:02] Like, as in something normal. Like, for example, if you're sick, go to the doctor. Like, don't start with a spell or anything. You need money? Look for work. Don't expect to magically get a bunch of coins appearing under your bed or whatever. If your boyfriend isn't texting you back, maybe actually have a conversation before putting crystals around the pictures and all that stuff. I'm sure somebody out there has done both, though. Like, good on you. Do what you need to do. Right. But now we have to talk about the Internet. And this, I think, is what gives us that perspective on getting a witch is.

[00:30:32] The ones that I have built in my mind. I find this super interesting. And I'm saying it just for entertainment purposes here. Okay. Now, have you heard of witch talk over on TikTok? I think if you spend enough time looking at these, you're going to find that they tell you how to make spell jars. They charge crystals under the moon. They perform protection rituals. Manifest a relationship. Some of them are more about, like, spiritual experiences.

[00:31:00] There's a very cool aesthetic to it. I find it cool. I wouldn't do it that way. But I find it kind of cool. But they have all these other pagan movements, right? They existed way, way before the Internet and Wicca and all this stuff. Obviously, before Instagram and everything. But they kind of ended up looking like that. And when we imagine this thing, literally it's imagined. We don't know what they actually look like in all these rituals. But anyway, there's a business side to it as well, obviously, right?

[00:31:30] They sell crystals. They sell tarot cards, readings, courses on how to be a witch. So there's money in that, right? Even, like, spiritual consultations and all that. And plus, like, not all witches believe that magic is literally, like, supernatural. They just think it's, you know, all these exercises that are very symbolic just to help them get through stuff. But anyway, this whole gringa witch phenomenon is very interesting. Actually, when I hear the word witch still, I always think of the scary thing. I think of bruja.

[00:32:01] But now when I think of, like, oh, when somebody says, well, I'm a witch, I feel like the opposite. Which is really strange also because we were, like, early United States was very afraid of witches. As in, like, as far as believing that they were responsible for illnesses and natural disasters and stuff like that. They went as far as, like, jailing them, even killing them, right? Like, hanging them and stuff.

[00:32:29] So when did all that stuff start turning around? We don't know. It's just, again, very different than what I'm used to, right? But they're pretty similar, right? The same thing. To summarize, it's protection rituals, spiritual cleansing, herbal traditions, spirits, supernatural. They all have that, right? But I feel like I need to tell you something about the idea of, like, the witches. Now that we just passed Halloween and all that. The cauldron where that comes from, for example, that came from Macbeth, which is from Shakespeare.

[00:32:59] That imagery was just tied to witches. The pointed hat. That one actually has no, like, actual single explanation. There was actually a drawing of it somewhere. They say that they connected it to historical clothing and depictions of marginalized groups. Somebody might have had a hat like that. The broomstick, though, comes from medieval and European beliefs. They're actually images of witches flying on broomsticks as early as the 1400s. All right. The green witch. That's from The Wizard of Oz. Hollywood. They made us believe that.

[00:33:29] And also, I guess, nursery rhymes that I grew up with. Makes sense. So, why am I still afraid of Mexican brujas? The main reason, I feel, is that when you have indigenous communities throughout Mesoamerica that were already diverse spiritually, right? They have their own practices and everything. The Spanish come by and they say, no, we're all going to believe this thing and destroy everything else and they just want people to believe the church, right?

[00:33:56] Of course, people still want to practice what they know, what they grew up with, right? So, everything kind of gets whispered down as in like, okay, they practice in secret. And then we get the occult stuff, right? We call it occult. We have to hide it. And I think in that branch of everything came these like dark kind of practices as well. When the Spanish were saying, if you practice this stuff, you are evil. You're doing something for the devil.

[00:34:26] Yeah, you have people that are like, that's not true and they keep practicing. But then you have people who want to practice because of that. And we started getting that split. And then you have things that actually happen. Cases that you hear, things that you breed about where you have dark powers being responsible for the death of people. And it's scary. Like, aren't you scared of that? Am I the only one that's afraid of witches? Because I'm not afraid of like vampires or ghosts per se. But I'm not scared of that. But I am scared of witches. Like genuinely freaked out by the whole idea.

[00:34:54] I think, you know, it's interesting when you hear about the whole, the Spanish colonizers and how they try to replace all these religious practices with Christianity. And all these other things just eventually just got classified as a work of the devil. Yet it wasn't like that. And yet I'm still afraid of it. But now we have all these like folk traditions in Mexico and all these magical kind of traditions which I find really, really interesting,

[00:35:24] really bizarre to some of the practices are really strange to me. Also, some traditional spiritual practices had to be hidden because it would be persecuted. You know, people would legitimately get persecuted and sometimes killed over this kind of thing. You know, now when we talk about witches and like family gatherings, things about witchcraft stories of people who suffered because of that, my own family story about that, which I'm still finding out about, believe it or not,

[00:35:53] just a couple of days ago, my sister and I were talking and I learned way more about the history of what may have affected my family, the death of my grandma that actually might still be affecting us now. It's a very, it's a very bizarre story. And I feel like I need to tell it in parts, but it's also very personal. So I'm trying to figure out the best way to share it. But all these things, spiritual attacks, curses, people believing to like they have supernatural abilities, like all these things are very scary, right?

[00:36:23] And I think what makes a witch now is something that we have to really talk about. Is it about practicing magic? Is it somebody who performs rituals? Does that make you a witch? If you believe in supernatural forces, does that make you a witch? Is it something that just your neighbors accuse you of being and that makes you a witch? Can you simply just say, I am a witch? Just declare it? You just say, I'm a witch. And that's it? I don't know. Because now people proudly say, hey, I'm a witch. Yeah, I'm cool.

[00:36:52] Yet, historically, they were being persecuted for being witches. So when did that flip? In Mexico, for example, witch is someone you're afraid of and you just, you're kind of, you stay away from them as much as you can. People who get close, you can kind of suspect that they're trying to do something. So maybe I'm not talking about the same thing. Maybe the modern witch and the Mexican bruja aren't things we can just compare like that. Right? Maybe one of them, they come from different areas, different roots.

[00:37:21] I think the word witch can also mean different things to different people and in different places based on historical culture, like historical context, culture, the person who's using it and what they perceive to be a witch. And I think that there's a distinction between what practitioners believe and what outsiders believe about them. There's a huge difference between that. Also, my experiences in the United States, for example, learning about brujas in Mexico,

[00:37:49] those also shift my perspective on witchcraft. You can hear it now. I cannot be like contradicting myself and being like, this is a witch. No, this is a witch. No, but hold on. This is what I mean by... It's a genuine mix of things and history, which I find really fascinating. So Mexican brujas still frighten me, even after understanding the similarities. But I don't think that is necessarily what witches do that scares me.

[00:38:18] I think it's what we have been told about them. What do you think? All righty, let's check out some of the comments that we got. These are from Spotify. It says, I can't believe it took so long to discover your podcast. Amazing storytelling shared with my husband, Mexican. And we love the Mexican and Mexican-American stories. You definitely carry that aura. Thanks. Appreciate that. This is super interesting to hear that. Because it's...

[00:38:46] I always feel like people, people like me, you know, growing up in the US, families from Mexico, we view things in a different way because we grew up in an environment that people are afraid of ghosts or you have to prove the existence of ghosts. Like, you're kind of embarrassed to talk about ghosts. But in my family, they actually, we love it. Like, we love talking about ghost stories and stuff. It's a very common, like, thing that we do, even at family parties and stuff, like gatherings. It's just normal.

[00:39:15] We can say, hey, let's have a fogata. And then everybody gets together, maybe brings coffee, maybe some carne asada, and we just start talking. And eventually it turns into ghost stories. And the little kid crying and go away. Like, don't listen to this because you're going to get scared. It's cool. But thank you, Ana. I appreciate that. Torres Ricardo 90 says, Tito's mom called him mijotito. Oh, I had to read that out loud to get it. That ain't right. Okay.

[00:39:45] That's not appropriate. That was funny. That's the kind of joke thing, you know? You can offend people, but, like, it was not my intention. I literally just got it. And it was funny. Oh, okay. Anyway. Good one. Good one. Persephone says, I love your stories. I have a few of them to tell, too. Please tell your stories. That'd be cool. That'd be cool to have you on or read your stories on here. Let me see if we can find some more comments.

[00:40:11] This is from the collab that we did with another effing horror podcast. It says, my friends and I are planning a 10-day trip to Salem. So excited, but definitely going to be cautious when we visit places. We're not planning any paranormal investigations. Just being there is enough. I agree. You know what? I'm not so much into paranormal. I like watching the shows, but I don't like doing a lot of investigations. I think I would do it for fun if, like, I knew it was, you know, it was a friendly thing. But also, I'm not, I don't want to make, like, a spectacle out of it. But I find them super fun to watch.

[00:40:41] Like, I'm like, whoa, you can communicate with the ghost? I don't know what I would feel, you know, if I was getting intelligent responses. Pretty creepy. But yeah, thanks. That came from WhyMarley3. Persephone also commented on this one. Thanks. Thank you, by the way. This is so interesting. What a great episode. Appreciate that. I'm glad you liked the collab. I think it was really fun. It was really cool talking with them and learning about paranormal investigations and stuff. Also, bagging a little bit on Zach from Ghost Adventures. That was fun.

[00:41:10] NYC Italian American says, happy Halloween, everyone. Happy Halloween. That was Halloween past, but it's Halloween all the time. We'll just keep it going. Anaisca says, love it. Thank you. LunaLoveGrave88 says, I'm convinced that if you drank every time they said like. Oh, no. We're criticizing the word like here. But it says, you took and communicated with all the hosts through the dead bell. Esti Smith did.

[00:41:38] You guys are going well, dude. Like, I can't. I can't, dude. Pusheen says, freaking loved Ghost Hunters. My sisters and I still rewatch them to this day. Yeah. I love Ghost Hunters. It was. And the reason why is not so much that it was such a like of the best show. This, by the way, I'm talking about the actual show called Ghost Hunters. I think they're from the travel channel, the history channel. I forgot. But anyway, it was the very first ghost hunting show I ever watched.

[00:42:06] It's actually what inspired us, a group of friends to make paranormal. It's called Research and Investigation of the Paranormal. RIP. And it was a club that we made in high school. Very interesting. BNolan74 says, this was such a good episode. It was great listening to all of you. I hope you guys do another collaboration. Yeah, I hope so, too. Hopefully we do. That came from our spirit actually answered them during an investigation episode. The collab one. Alrighty, so that's all I have for you this week.

[00:42:35] Thank you very much for listening, by the way, or watching wherever you may be. If you have any experiences, scary things that you want to share with me, you have all the info in the description of this episode. As always, keep it scary, everyone. See you soon.

[00:42:57] You know, when we talk about witches, I always think of my experience, which I don't really talk about that much. But I am going to. Obviously, I always ask you guys for your stories. So I feel it's fair for me to share mine, right? But I am building it out. But basically, how it goes is I recently learned. Actually, it's been a few months.

[00:43:26] It's been a few months as I spoke to everybody in Mexico, actually, about this stuff. My aunt started telling me how she experienced the death of my grandma, of her mother. And from what I learned is that she was she felt sick out of nowhere. And they suspected it was his family who was causing harm on my family.

[00:43:57] And even when she was buried and they were doing the whole thing of, you know, the funeral, all the arrangements, they that that that group of people that was doing the harm, like was doing the witchcraft, the the the brujeria. Didn't show up. No condolences. No. I'm sorry for your loss. No, nothing. And. And also, they kind of like this other guy, a curandero kind of guy, like a healer.

[00:44:26] He lived a little far, a little far from from that town. And he would come down and say, hey, I know exactly who's doing this. And they live like this. They look like this. They're responsible for this so we can reverse it. We can do stuff. And they've tried. But it just wasn't good enough. And my grandma passed. Now, that's just like a vague summary of what it was.

[00:44:50] But then we started experiencing, like, for example, things around my family. Right. My mom went through a health scare that made no sense. Made no sense at all. My sister told me that she actually was told by somebody in 2000. I got to ask her what year it was. It was some years ago.

[00:45:18] That told her that there was a curse on the family based on the events that actually happened. Like, actually, actually happened. That she was like, my sister was like, there's no way this was a coincidence. Of course, I'm curious. Right. And I want to investigate because it also involves this hidden, like, actually buried curse. I don't know what that means exactly. But I'm interested in, like, should we go look for this?

[00:45:47] Should we question people? Should we? Should we? What do we do to fix this? And obviously, I'm intrigued, right, by all this stuff. And I want to fix it. But it's also a very serious thing. I think out of everything, it really just tells you, hey, this stuff exists. And that's scary. That's really, really, really scary. But I'm interested in if you have any witchcraft stories. I would like to learn about them.

[00:46:16] I want to know how you deal with them or how you know that people dealt with them. And did it work? Did it not work? What happened? I know it's very personal. I know that because I feel that pressure right now. And I'm like, oh, like, it's a personal thing. If I felt like this wouldn't help somebody, like, help people, I probably wouldn't share it. Because it's not necessarily for entertainment purposes. We could do so much other stuff for entertainment purposes.

[00:46:45] But it's very interesting to learn from and to learn about. And I feel like a lot of people that are experiencing things that they have no explanation for, it might be something to look into. Again, it's not like I'm a full believer in, like, this stuff or whatever. This happens. But, like, when you have the proof like that all lined up and you're like, okay, I'm kind of running out of excuses of why this is not true. It really makes you think. But anyway, I'm interested, very interested in knowing what you have to say about this.

[00:47:14] But that's all I got. Thank you, guys. Have a good one.