The Strange Case of a Mexican Curandera (Pachita's Story)

[00:00:00] At some political event, Jacobo met this woman and they had this conversation about consciousness, like high level kinds of stuff. And this woman happened to be the sister of the then Mexican president, José López Portillo. So she was like, hey, you know what? Let's keep the conversation going. Why don't you come on over to Los Pinos, which is like the presidential estate. He's like, hmm, what an honor. Thank you. He decides to show up. When he's there, of course, it's going to be like all luxury and showy as you can get, right?

[00:00:28] So they have these huge cages with tropical birds from all over Mexico. He's like, hmm, that's interesting. And the birds are just kind of there chilling, you know, looking around and whatever the birds do. And all of a sudden they start getting really loud, like singing in this song. Everybody turns their heads and they see this little old lady, right? And she looks happy, but she's walking up straight to the sister of the president. Her name is Margarita, by the way. And she's like, why are there so many taxes, Margarita? Don't you see that people are starving to death?

[00:00:58] And she just said it straight up like that, like to the sister of the president. Of course, Jacobo was like, whoa, who is that? Jacobo was spellbound by this. She just had this vibe to her that everybody was like, whoa, and they like respected her. So of course he was super excited to meet her. Little did he know that that woman he had just met was about to change his life forever. The woman he had met was Barbara Guerrero.

[00:01:25] She was almost 80 years old at this time, which is the late 70s. And the man, Jacobo, his name was Dr. Jacobo Greenberg Silberbaum. He was a Mexican paraphysiologist. I mean, I need to get this right. Mexican psychophysiologist and a psychology professor at UNAM, like a very prestigious university in Mexico. And the director of a consciousness study institute. Now, Jacobo was an interesting man. And obviously he was invited to all these events, right?

[00:01:52] And he had a lot of stuff to talk about, a lot of things he was learning about too. And one of these things was that he wanted to explain how spiritual miracles and the physical world are connected. So he was searching for men and women of knowledge, and he was trying to talk to them to prove his theories. And there she was, Barbara Guerrero, also known as Pachita. This woman who could do psychic surgeries and materialize organs in her own hands. So, of course, Jacobo got to know Pachita at this event.

[00:02:22] They talked, and she was like, hey, you should come over to my house. And he said yes. So, as I'm about to tell you, Dr. Jacobo went to see Pachita, and he was able to document these miracles firsthand. You have this respected psychology professor, and you have a person who can perform miracles, both in the same room. You ready? My name is Edwin, and this is Paranormal Club.

[00:02:56] Jacobo was pissed. He had gotten lost. He was on his way to Pachita's house, but it's like in the middle of a bunch of other monte and area. Monte is like, what is monte? How do you even describe monte? Like grassy hills or dirt roads and stuff like that. He also had gotten into an argument with the taxi driver. Anyway, he was able to recognize the house because there was a crowd of patients there waiting.

[00:03:22] And they were all having some issue that she was going to help with. There, he got to see this young girl who could not speak. She couldn't walk. She couldn't think, supposedly. And yet she was smiling. The story that she had was pretty tough because she had gotten just a regular tonsil surgery, but they like did an overdose with the anesthesia.

[00:03:45] And basically, they turned like she was deprived of oxygen, and it affected her brain, her ability to do a lot of things. So she couldn't even, you know, she couldn't do anything. She was kind of in a vegetative state. She had actually started her routine. Like he started her series of operations with Pachita directly. He makes his way through, gets into what they see as the operating room. This room with just curtains there. And what he sees is pretty bizarre. So Pachita's there and she's like, Mi niño, acércate.

[00:04:15] My child, come close. You came at the right time. That's what she said. And he felt immediately better after seeing that. Remember, he was pissed. He was altered. He was angry of trying to find directions and all that. By the way, there's no Google Maps at this moment, right? Pachita had her eyes closed. She had this assistant with her. His name was Leo. Leo asked him to get ready. It was going to help this woman who was crying right there at the operating table,

[00:04:42] which was basically this colchon, like this mattress thing covered with this plastic sheet. And said, hey, this woman, she has strong stomach pain and she needs help. So he started watching as Pachita grabbed this hunting knife, a cuchillo de monte. Not quite a machete, but like something that is not something you normally operate with. And that's when things just, his reality of everything, he was like, everything that he

[00:05:10] had studied, everything that he knew just went and twisted because it was impossible what Pachita was doing. The story of this woman who had showed up with this strong stomach pain, she had basically, she showed up and she said, Tengo dolor, hermano. Take a note of that, right? She said, No puedo vivir con él. Ayúdame en el nombre del padre. Which means, I have pain, brother. Brother, I can't live with this. Help me in the name of the father. Brother.

[00:05:40] Why did she call him brother? We're going to get into that, right? So Jacobo and Leo, they told Jacobo, hey, Jacobo, get this cotton stuff and put it in her stomach, like on her stomach. Pachita, brother, plunged the knife into her flesh, like in the abdomen area. It was like five or 15 centimeters, depending on, you know, where you look, look up the story. I actually looked up the story, the books from Jacobo, Dr. Jacobo Greenberg. And these accounts are insane.

[00:06:10] So she started bleeding immediately, right? She started just blood, blood was coming out. And what Pachita did, she grabbed some scissors and like she put her hand like inside of the abdomen here and cut something. Then she takes out this like stinky mass. And Leo told Jacobo, Jacobo, satura, like basically grab the cotton, put it over, over the wound. But also satura means like channel the energy into one thing, right? So he's doing that.

[00:06:38] When he lifted up the cotton, there was no scar. There was no wound. The woman was helped, you know, they lifted her up again. And Jacobo said that she seemed to be weightless. What did he just witness? So who is brother? Who is el hermanito or hermano? And these were things, it might derail the whole story here because supposedly hermano is a spirit of Cuauhtémoc, the last Aztec emperor.

[00:07:07] Of course, when you hear this, you're like, okay. So it's one of these kinds of stories. Like some spirit is possessing her and people are believing that this thing is actually happening. Like this magic is happening. You know, she claimed that she didn't remember her performing the operations. In her mind, actually, what she did is she would go into this deep trance and end up in what she would call a garden. She just went to this beautiful garden.

[00:07:33] Like her consciousness and ego, like her, you know, Barbara Guerrero thing, like person was basically just out of the picture. And now a new thing was there. And the true surgeon was indeed the spirit. Now, if this is scaring you to hear this, right, to hear that this is possible, stick around because there's more like, as in, it's not just this kind of theory. Like there's, there's more ideas of what could be happening.

[00:07:59] And one of them is very scientific and it's, it's actually brought up by Dr. Jacobo. So remember that he witnessed that, that girl in the vegetative state, like the, the girl who couldn't move, who she was kind of paralyzed with the overdose of anesthesia. They took her in, into the operating table, the operating room. And this is kind of graphic, right? So Pachita sliced it to the scalp and then with the hacksaw blade cut into the bone of the skull, like into the actual skull.

[00:08:27] She reached in, she sliced a piece of brain tissue, took it out and then held it in her hands and started saying something like, like she was like, vive, vive, like live, live, live. And she would just put it back in. Actually it was a cortex, which I don't know where the, where the cortex is, but like, just imagine this happening, right?

[00:08:51] She then put a piece of like, of cotton soaked in alcohol and Jacobo was holding it there, you know, over the, the, the wound now. And then told her to saturate, like to, to just press down, like to hold his hands over it. But when he lifted it, the skull was completely healed. There was no scars. It was just like back together, like normal. Of course, there were several operations of this, but eventually the, the young girl started to be able to feed herself.

[00:09:21] She started to smile, speak, like she started to walk with a little bit of assistance, but was able to walk again. How do you, how do we explain something like that? Right. With witnesses like that. There's another situation. This one's a little more intense, like this one's a little, uh, just, they're all kind of graphic that they're digging into somebody's body. Right. So there's this cult filmmaker. Their name is Alejandro Jodorowsky or Jodorowsky. And he was an assistant actually to Pachita.

[00:09:51] She actually had a several assistants, but he was there for three years and he started having, he had witnessed a bunch of operations, but he started having like a severe, like stomach pain. So it was like liver pain. So he was like, okay, Pachita, I guess it's my turn. I've seen this work. So let's just do it to me now. So they laid him down on the table.

[00:10:15] Pachita went and grabbed some scissors and just cut into his body, his abdomen area where the liver is. And then once it was kind of, the skin was kind of open, then started working with the knife. He was able to get in, grab the dark red liver. She yanked out this growth on it. It just went, ripped it out. And the thing was moving and it looked like a frog, like a sappel, like a frog. That's the word.

[00:10:44] It just moved like that. Right? So she threw it into this black paper bag, which is a common thing that she would do with things that are, I guess, bad, like bad masses or growths in the body. She then put into the, put in this plastic tube into his wrist. She spit out this like, like hot red liquid into it, put her hands on the wound. It closed and healed. And he felt immediately better.

[00:11:12] Now there are a ton, a ton of these stories. I'll tell you another one. I'll tell you another one. But there's a ton of these stories, these stories with witnesses that saw these things happening. This one's called, it's about the live snake, which I think was the most dangerous one because it involved dark spirits, something evil. So Pachita was operating on her assistant, another assistant, Armando, who had this daño basically cast something bad on him. And it turned out to be something that was materializing inside of his body.

[00:11:42] And it happened to be like in his lower abdomen and the right leg. Now, spiritual curses have backlash, right? If you're trying to clear yourself from something spiritual, something evil, something bad, they don't go away that easily. Like they'll, they'll battle. Like they'll, they'll try to stick around, right? So this is what's happening here. So she ordered the assistants. They were going to form this tight, like hand-to-hand chain around the table.

[00:12:10] And nobody was allowed to cross their arms or legs, you know, for spiritual reasons. So Pachita sliced open the abdomen. She started whistling. And they said that whistle was to summon the army of spirits. So Pachita grabbed Jacobo's hand after slicing, you know, Armando open and pushed it into the abdomen area. So Jacobo's hands was inside of the abdomen. She was told to take it out. Sácalo, Jacobo, sácalo. She was telling him like to take out whatever's in there.

[00:12:40] Jacobo was like, what is this thing, right? And out pull, he pulls out this snake. He's just in, like kind of in shock. He's like, what is this? Candelaria, who happened to be Pachita's assistant, who she was like the most mysterious one. She actually has a lot of really interesting accounts as well. She was able to grab a hold of the snake, of this víbora. And as she was about to put it into the black paper bag, the thing slithers out of her hand and goes straight back into trying to get into Armando's abdomen.

[00:13:10] She was able to grab it again and then puts it in the bag and seals it. And what they're supposed to do after that is at the CLA to do a thing and they burn it up, basically. Again, it's not just her in the room. It's multiple people who are witnessing these events, these things happening right in front of them. Why? What is happening? And of course, the stories being so famous, they undergo a lot of scrutiny. People try to prove whether it's true, not true. What do we think about all these things, right?

[00:13:37] So I looked up some of the theories into what may have been or what the reasons for this are. And there's a bunch. I think this first one is the one that comes from Dr. Jacobo, which is called neurosytergy. It's not a word. If you look it up, it's not like a common word. He coined that term. And it's bending the quantum space-time fabric. What are we talking about here, right?

[00:14:00] This is he has this theory of the lattice, which is this symmetric holographic energy grid that exists. And every brain has this neuronal field, what they call a campo neuronal, that expands into space and interacts with this lattice, this holographic grid that exists in space-time. And you can bypass physical laws.

[00:14:24] And that's by bringing your brain up to like this high vibration, like enough for you to be able to tweak this thing and move, like actually manipulate the lattice. So it can warp with it. It can interact with it. It can like poke at it. Imagine like a blanket and you're kind of like, you know, trying to push away from it. Like you can kind of do that, warp it. Well, the lattice is actually what, I guess, affects everything that we see, everything that exists.

[00:14:50] So they say that Pachita's brain could access this lattice, can alter space-time. And she could materialize physical objects because of this. She could also do molecular healing, which is called like saturar. When you put your hand in something, you channel your energy there. You might see people who are like into spiritual things, be able to do that or like to take the energy or put energy into their food and stuff like that. That's his theory, right? But there's a few more.

[00:15:17] And there are some that don't actually follow along with the whole magic aspect of all this. The theory too that I found here, there's a bunch, right? But the ones that I found most interesting was the Cuauhtémoc, spiritual possession thing. Where Pachita is just a medium, like she's just an envelope of, like a flesh envelope, what they call it. And there's a spirit possessing her. And she is, since she's not remembering anything that she does while she's performing these surgeries, the spirit is doing all of it.

[00:15:46] So there's an interesting story actually with why Cuauhtempo, why the last Aztec? And why not some ancient person that lived in the forest back in the day? Supposedly he was doing scientific research and he was learning about human consciousness and everything. But the Spanish came by and the conquest and everything started and he lost track of everything. And obviously he didn't, like that was it.

[00:16:15] Like they ended basically his whole research. So he got, he didn't get all the way there. And now he's doing this through people. And in this case, he was performing these surgeries through Pachita. So Cuauhtempo is basically finishing this, you know, cosmic mission that he had. Now, the theory three, the sacred theater. This one is for our skeptic friends out there. So they say that maybe, hear me out here. This is actually coming from the filmmaker that I mentioned to you. His name is Alejandro.

[00:16:45] And he said that all of this was just this mental representation of what's happening. Basically, she would go to the market, grab organs from animals, grab bags of blood, grab all these like fleshy things. And she would perform with a slate of hand things that she was doing. Now, the theory here goes is that when you're performing a surgery on somebody and imagine you hear a knife stabbing flesh and you hear that.

[00:17:10] And it's opening and you feel like your insides are being taken out. You're going to put all your trust into this woman. And that's where the secret here. So according to this theory lies, which is while she's doing that, you put all your trust and she does the psychological basically therapy. Brings you back to when you were a kid. Somebody's taking care of you and you feel good. Now, when they heal you, it turns out they never really opened up your body. But still, you believe that.

[00:17:40] And as you believe that, your brain starts triggering things to heal itself. So you start like it starts, you know, focusing things like focusing energy, I guess, or healing properties on your own body because you believe it. And you believe it with all your heart or like all your mind or whatever. And that's how people start healing on their own. Psychologically, I guess that one makes sense, right? There's all these theories about when people have issues with family members or they're really stressed out.

[00:18:08] They put them to forgive, to confront their problems, their uncle, their mom, their sisters. Hey, sorry for this that happened. And then when you let it out, it vanishes, right? And you believe that that's what's going to heal you. Well, this is what might be happening there except on a physical level. They say, hey, I just opened up your body. I just took it out. So it shouldn't hurt anymore. And then you just don't feel pain anymore. I mean, it makes sense, like logical sense.

[00:18:35] But all these other ones, like with the ones that Dr. Jacobo Greenberg saw, they also make sense, like logical sense, right? You see, we might not have the tools or the knowledge yet that there's some other stuff going on out there, that this lattice theory might actually exist, that there is a way to tweak or warp this energy thing where we live in.

[00:18:57] Now, another thing here, part of this theory from the filmmaker was that maybe there is no you, there is no me, and you're just imagining everything that's happening. I'm not here right now. You saw your own consciousness telling you that there's this dude on the internet telling you about this stuff and you're learning about it. But really, it's just your own brain. So in case you see me, I don't know, pull out like my head and you see it, you might just be like, oh, well, you made it up.

[00:19:26] In your mind, you, in your mind, you're seeing this thing happen, but you made it up. So anything healing, like I could bring my head back down and stitch it together and now it's fine. You made it up. It's what they call the phantom body. Everything that's happening is not really there. It's all this theater that we're seeing and we're making up in our mind. If you want to get into like Matrix kind of things, it's kind of like that.

[00:19:54] It is like, I'll tell you, there are a bunch of e-books. There's a bunch of material on this. And I only got to the surface of it. Like I had to like really like scan through it and to come up with the outlines and everything. But there are a lot. And they're available. Actually, you can find them on the internet. But you can also find collections of these. Los Chamanes de México and the different volumes. Because one of the most interesting ones. But you get to learn a lot about what's out there.

[00:20:21] And if you're ready for this, I'm telling you this because one time I recommended a book to somebody. And they got obsessed with it. And they believed that everything was real. And they were like, there is no God. There is no. And like I was like, hold on. Like it's ideas. Like people are sharing ideas. Just a heads up here. It's really going to open up your mind into what's possible out there. Not necessarily what's true or what happened necessarily, right? But what's possible. What don't we know about this world?

[00:20:50] And what do we need more knowledge of? So I want to leave you with this. Because have you ever tried anything to get healed? Like have you ever been taken to a person to take care of your susto? Like when you get scared and you're like kind of like tense. And they go and they get rid of it. Have you ever done that? Have they ever taken you to do something like that when you were a kid? Have your parents ever told you to do something that's kind of weird? Like I don't know. Put an onion in a sock with vaporu. And like put it in your stomach.

[00:21:18] And then suddenly you don't have a cough anymore. Or your chest. Not your stomach. Chest. Or was that just me? So if you've ever gone to one of these people instead of going to the doctor. Or after the whole doctor thing didn't work. Did this spiritual surgery or cleanse or anything like that work for you? Let me know. As always, thank you so much for coming back to Paranormal Club. Thank you for being here. If you have any ideas, comments, or questions. Please let me know.

[00:21:47] You can DM me. You can email me. You can drop a comment. And don't forget to subscribe. And if you're watching on YouTube, hit like. If you're watching on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. Please leave a review. That would help out a ton. But anyway, thank you very much for listening or watching. Keep it scary, everyone. See you soon.